I don’t disagree, but I tend to categorize transgender people in a different way. Group 1 is the set of people primarily motivated by sexual fetish - they are aroused by seeing themselves as the opposite sex and even more aroused by forcing others to participate in their fetish. They can be said to have gender dysphoria since they are dissatisfied with the appearance of their bodies. This group almost entirely consists of people who are male by birth. The second group is people who feel inadequate as their birth sex, and wish to transition primarily to escape their bodies and the expectations and stereotypes related to their sex. Nearly all FTM people fall into this category, as well as a large proportion of MTFs. They also have gender dysphoria since they are unhappy with their bodies. The first group is much smaller but much more vocal, and appears to contain at least some people intent on driving the public narrative to suit their purposes. I view the second group as victims of the first group - people who’ve been falsely convinced that transitioning will improve their self-acceptance and mental health, when in fact the opposite is true. However, the first group doesn’t care, they care only about advancing the cause of enabling their fetish and forcing others to participate in their sexual gratification. Both groups can be said to have gender dysphoria, but the reasons behind the dissatisfaction with their bodies, and their motivations for changing their bodies, are very different. I suspect the first group would be much more difficult to change than the second group, since patterns of sexual arousal are notoriously difficult to change even when the person wants to change them. The second group would greatly benefit from being helped to accept and have confidence in themselves as they are.
I follow your Substack so I know you have had much more exposure to the first group, but as a mom of a teen daughter who believes she’s a boy, I see so many teens who fall into the second group. Among adolescents, 70-80% (depending on the study you look at, see statsforgender.org) of the population seeking medicalized transition are natal females. It also appears to me that a good percentage of the teen and college age males who are transitioning are motivated by feeling inadequate and trying to avoid being viewed as an evil privileged white sexually aggressive male. So that’s what I’m basing my statement on. But the first group is certainly louder and more visible.
Ok--understood--I thought we were talking about natal males. Of males, the sexually motivated kind are currently more prevalent than the homosexual kind. There is much evidence to support this. And while I do believe there are more than two cohorts now with the social contagions affecting the young, I would caution against assuming that that nice confused teenage boy that you like isn't an autogynephile. Porn is the norm for young men now, including very niche porn, and more young men than you'd ever imagine belong to furry, anime, brony and other sexual-tinged subcultures. And autogynephiles are _not_ accurately described as fetishists bringing people into their fetish (though that kind of person does exist). Autogynephilia is much more complicated than that. I plan to do an article about it sometime but the Anne Lawrence piece I quote gives a very good primer.
But yes, if you're looking at both sexes, natal females are currently the largest group by far.
Thank you, and thanks for your clarification on autogynephiles. I’m also sorry for all you’ve been through. I enjoy reading your thought provoking Substack and wish you all the best too!
What I went through was years ago at this point, and I've built my life back on stronger foundations. We adults deal with bad relationships of all kinds. I feel much more concern for parents with kids involved in this stuff.
Yes, I don’t see it as much different than people who have plastic surgery after plastic surgery trying to look like some celebrity or fictional character. They think they’ll be more satisfied with themselves but after each surgery they find something else to be dissatisfied with so they need just one more surgery and THEN they’ll be happy.
BINGO! cara says it: "people [ ] are sucked into this butchery on the PROMISE it will make them happier."
This is the make-happier secret of the overall success of trans across multiple categories. Trans promises that changing legal sex (with or without drugs and butchery) will solve an almost infinite range of individual problems from childhood dysphorias to satisfying adult sexual urges to freeing men trapped in the "wrong" prison. Instead of the current popular designation of trans as a dubious IDEOLOGY that somehow motivates both adults and children, legal sex change can better be called the PANACEA, or even snake oil, equally applicable to all trans categories.
Shannon, I have a suggestion that I think would make things easier for readers. The trouble with using the word gender in a term is that it has two, or more, meanings. Your essay grants that gender dysphoria is a "slippery term" and so further defines it for the purpose of the essay as a "persistent psychological distress about one's sexed body." If the term gender dysphoria continues to be used, however, the reader still has to keep track of which of two meanings is being considered: 1) sex-stereotype dysphoria or 2) sexed-body dysphoria. My suggestion is to dispense with the word gender and directly use the sexed-body dysphoria meaning you specify. Patrick
I think that's a great idea for individuals, when we are speaking for ourselves. But "gender dysphoria" is a medical term in current use, and I'm addressing its use by Blanchard and Lawrence, as well responding to the (online) laypeople who seem to think that determining who "actually" has it will lead to good policy.
If I talked about who has "sex dysphoria," someone might well ask, "Ok, but what does that have to do with my family member who's been diagnosed with 'gender dysphoria?'" That's the term used in the clinical setting, regardless of whether a better phrase can be imagined. Here I'm concerned more with the fact that sexual motivation does not preclude its emergence nor diagnosis.
THANK YOU FOR MISUNDERSTANDING ME! because I was on the wrong track. I suggested "sexed-body dysphoria" which you understandably took as "sex(ual-activity) dysphoria." But reflecting on this misunderstanding I realize that, although crafting diagnostic terms might be necessary for medical research and insurance reimbursements, lay critics like myself have no business crafting these terms.
I will put off further comment on how to answer a family's questions about a family member who's been diagnosed with g-dysphoria until I've reviewed not only what the pioneers you mentioned have said, but also how medically credentialed critics like Drs. Grossman and Peterson might answer this lay question. (Lawyer-journalist Abigail Shrier would say "move to another state.")
I'll also be considering the "true trans" question which I think has no more actual reality than the sex-change legal fiction has. But the established sex-change legal fiction is backed by the total, unforgiving reality of the law's compulsion.
I understood sex dysphoria as "sexed-body dysphoria" rather than as "sex(ual-activity) dysphoria" (I'm not even sure what the latter would be). I was only saying that people who use one phrase won't understand that you're talking about the same thing if you use a different phrase.
I don’t disagree, but I tend to categorize transgender people in a different way. Group 1 is the set of people primarily motivated by sexual fetish - they are aroused by seeing themselves as the opposite sex and even more aroused by forcing others to participate in their fetish. They can be said to have gender dysphoria since they are dissatisfied with the appearance of their bodies. This group almost entirely consists of people who are male by birth. The second group is people who feel inadequate as their birth sex, and wish to transition primarily to escape their bodies and the expectations and stereotypes related to their sex. Nearly all FTM people fall into this category, as well as a large proportion of MTFs. They also have gender dysphoria since they are unhappy with their bodies. The first group is much smaller but much more vocal, and appears to contain at least some people intent on driving the public narrative to suit their purposes. I view the second group as victims of the first group - people who’ve been falsely convinced that transitioning will improve their self-acceptance and mental health, when in fact the opposite is true. However, the first group doesn’t care, they care only about advancing the cause of enabling their fetish and forcing others to participate in their sexual gratification. Both groups can be said to have gender dysphoria, but the reasons behind the dissatisfaction with their bodies, and their motivations for changing their bodies, are very different. I suspect the first group would be much more difficult to change than the second group, since patterns of sexual arousal are notoriously difficult to change even when the person wants to change them. The second group would greatly benefit from being helped to accept and have confidence in themselves as they are.
I don't think the first group is smaller than the second, these days.
I follow your Substack so I know you have had much more exposure to the first group, but as a mom of a teen daughter who believes she’s a boy, I see so many teens who fall into the second group. Among adolescents, 70-80% (depending on the study you look at, see statsforgender.org) of the population seeking medicalized transition are natal females. It also appears to me that a good percentage of the teen and college age males who are transitioning are motivated by feeling inadequate and trying to avoid being viewed as an evil privileged white sexually aggressive male. So that’s what I’m basing my statement on. But the first group is certainly louder and more visible.
Ok--understood--I thought we were talking about natal males. Of males, the sexually motivated kind are currently more prevalent than the homosexual kind. There is much evidence to support this. And while I do believe there are more than two cohorts now with the social contagions affecting the young, I would caution against assuming that that nice confused teenage boy that you like isn't an autogynephile. Porn is the norm for young men now, including very niche porn, and more young men than you'd ever imagine belong to furry, anime, brony and other sexual-tinged subcultures. And autogynephiles are _not_ accurately described as fetishists bringing people into their fetish (though that kind of person does exist). Autogynephilia is much more complicated than that. I plan to do an article about it sometime but the Anne Lawrence piece I quote gives a very good primer.
But yes, if you're looking at both sexes, natal females are currently the largest group by far.
Also, I'm really sorry that you're going through this with your daughter. I hope you are able to get support and I wish you a happy outcome.
Thank you, and thanks for your clarification on autogynephiles. I’m also sorry for all you’ve been through. I enjoy reading your thought provoking Substack and wish you all the best too!
What I went through was years ago at this point, and I've built my life back on stronger foundations. We adults deal with bad relationships of all kinds. I feel much more concern for parents with kids involved in this stuff.
so true. which is what is so sad about so many young people who are sucked into this butchery on the promise it will make them happier.
Yes, I don’t see it as much different than people who have plastic surgery after plastic surgery trying to look like some celebrity or fictional character. They think they’ll be more satisfied with themselves but after each surgery they find something else to be dissatisfied with so they need just one more surgery and THEN they’ll be happy.
BINGO! cara says it: "people [ ] are sucked into this butchery on the PROMISE it will make them happier."
This is the make-happier secret of the overall success of trans across multiple categories. Trans promises that changing legal sex (with or without drugs and butchery) will solve an almost infinite range of individual problems from childhood dysphorias to satisfying adult sexual urges to freeing men trapped in the "wrong" prison. Instead of the current popular designation of trans as a dubious IDEOLOGY that somehow motivates both adults and children, legal sex change can better be called the PANACEA, or even snake oil, equally applicable to all trans categories.
Shannon, I have a suggestion that I think would make things easier for readers. The trouble with using the word gender in a term is that it has two, or more, meanings. Your essay grants that gender dysphoria is a "slippery term" and so further defines it for the purpose of the essay as a "persistent psychological distress about one's sexed body." If the term gender dysphoria continues to be used, however, the reader still has to keep track of which of two meanings is being considered: 1) sex-stereotype dysphoria or 2) sexed-body dysphoria. My suggestion is to dispense with the word gender and directly use the sexed-body dysphoria meaning you specify. Patrick
I think that's a great idea for individuals, when we are speaking for ourselves. But "gender dysphoria" is a medical term in current use, and I'm addressing its use by Blanchard and Lawrence, as well responding to the (online) laypeople who seem to think that determining who "actually" has it will lead to good policy.
If I talked about who has "sex dysphoria," someone might well ask, "Ok, but what does that have to do with my family member who's been diagnosed with 'gender dysphoria?'" That's the term used in the clinical setting, regardless of whether a better phrase can be imagined. Here I'm concerned more with the fact that sexual motivation does not preclude its emergence nor diagnosis.
THANK YOU FOR MISUNDERSTANDING ME! because I was on the wrong track. I suggested "sexed-body dysphoria" which you understandably took as "sex(ual-activity) dysphoria." But reflecting on this misunderstanding I realize that, although crafting diagnostic terms might be necessary for medical research and insurance reimbursements, lay critics like myself have no business crafting these terms.
I will put off further comment on how to answer a family's questions about a family member who's been diagnosed with g-dysphoria until I've reviewed not only what the pioneers you mentioned have said, but also how medically credentialed critics like Drs. Grossman and Peterson might answer this lay question. (Lawyer-journalist Abigail Shrier would say "move to another state.")
I'll also be considering the "true trans" question which I think has no more actual reality than the sex-change legal fiction has. But the established sex-change legal fiction is backed by the total, unforgiving reality of the law's compulsion.
I understood sex dysphoria as "sexed-body dysphoria" rather than as "sex(ual-activity) dysphoria" (I'm not even sure what the latter would be). I was only saying that people who use one phrase won't understand that you're talking about the same thing if you use a different phrase.