Thanks for putting the focus back where it belongs. The kinds of things that you talk about are things that men under the age of 50 or so generally agree with you about. We might disagree on how to fix them -- government action vs voluntary social change -- but we don’t disagree about their existence like we might about the other definition of patriarchy. I suspect that there’s a generational divide where men started having feminist moms, but I could be extrapolating too much from my own life.
I live in a matriarchy. Where I live, only men are forced to fight in wars (I know, it's weird, but here, women don't have to even register for a draft). If a man refuses to go to war, the government will come and hold him at gunpoint and force him. It's barbaric. Where I live, women also hold most of the positions of power in media, academics (at all levels), medical care, psychological care, and local governance (particularly school boards). It's also socially acceptable here to discriminate against men, while it's illegal to discriminate against women. My life is filled with stories of men being discriminated against - I could fill Dr. Peterson's mailbox with them. The little boys here don't do as well in school as little girls because the people who control the schools are women. Men don't go to college as much as women. Men have lower incomes per hour, unless they take jobs that are dangerous - which they do (men die at a much higher rate in jobs than women here). Men also are killing themselves much more than women, which you can of course understand, being in a matriarchy. Men are discriminated against in court, whether it's criminal court or family court -- they are stuck in the matriarchy where women are locked up less and awarded money/children more. I live in the United States. I'm a woman with two daughters, so I used to think this was awesome. But now that I have two grandsons, it's not as nice to live in a matriarchy. I feel bad for being selfish in the past.
I've noticed a lot of the men who wade into feminism/gender issues have some Asbergerish tendencies who use a very literal definition (hence deny its validity). But the P-word has morphed into a generic label over the decades - it now just means "name for anything I don't like" when spoken by a feminist. And it is accompanied by other simplistic bogeyman-personifications that exist in partner movements: all problems result from [racism/colonialism/patriarchy/heteronormativity] strike out whichever applies.
The longer the phenomenon Shannon describes goes on (equal/superior attainments by women w/o commensurate substantive outcomes re money/power) the more attractive the conclusion that there are essentialist differences between men and women - isn't that an inevitable position if you are denying TWAW?
The motte on the hill in Clown World you've chosen to die on tilting at a windmill you've mistaken for Jordan. Weird how you manage that with a a figment living rent-free in your head, but still. I don't know how many times I've listened or read Dr Peterson walking us through this patriarchy thing or from how many directions he has done it from; but it is a lot in seven years. It is out there for the listening. You either haven't actually been listening; instead having a whole other conversation in your head (I get that a lot; and probably more from men 2 to 1) a la Cathy Newman; (But she is payed to not get it; I'm at a loss of what being deliberately obtuse unpaid is about) or you simply aren't up to understanding him atm and will never get it unless you turn around whatever is getting in the road. From what you've written, there might be a pattern there.
Been there; done that; got draws full of t-shirts. I too thought every one else was wrong once; but it turned out to be me that was orthagonal to the world all along. It took forty years and winding up before magistrates to begin to sort me out; to the degree I am that is! You've obviously achieved a lot; but you can achieve more. I think you are being your own glass ceiling. Believe me, it is a waste. You don't even get to the path less trodden before your time is up as you've been the Red Queen running still in one place all along.
Ironically something that might help you work out what is going on for yourself is Dr Peterson, et.al; 'The Self-Authoring Suite'; established as efficacious well before his notoriety. This is probably not the reaction you might have been looking for, but I don't believe in affirming folk digging holes for themselves. TTFN.
Thanks for putting the focus back where it belongs. The kinds of things that you talk about are things that men under the age of 50 or so generally agree with you about. We might disagree on how to fix them -- government action vs voluntary social change -- but we don’t disagree about their existence like we might about the other definition of patriarchy. I suspect that there’s a generational divide where men started having feminist moms, but I could be extrapolating too much from my own life.
I live in a matriarchy. Where I live, only men are forced to fight in wars (I know, it's weird, but here, women don't have to even register for a draft). If a man refuses to go to war, the government will come and hold him at gunpoint and force him. It's barbaric. Where I live, women also hold most of the positions of power in media, academics (at all levels), medical care, psychological care, and local governance (particularly school boards). It's also socially acceptable here to discriminate against men, while it's illegal to discriminate against women. My life is filled with stories of men being discriminated against - I could fill Dr. Peterson's mailbox with them. The little boys here don't do as well in school as little girls because the people who control the schools are women. Men don't go to college as much as women. Men have lower incomes per hour, unless they take jobs that are dangerous - which they do (men die at a much higher rate in jobs than women here). Men also are killing themselves much more than women, which you can of course understand, being in a matriarchy. Men are discriminated against in court, whether it's criminal court or family court -- they are stuck in the matriarchy where women are locked up less and awarded money/children more. I live in the United States. I'm a woman with two daughters, so I used to think this was awesome. But now that I have two grandsons, it's not as nice to live in a matriarchy. I feel bad for being selfish in the past.
The irony of the feminine gaze focused on a man, refuting and discussing his ideas about patriarchy.
The Marxist femininsts a prioris are buried so deep, we are so incepted, they are now invisible.
I've noticed a lot of the men who wade into feminism/gender issues have some Asbergerish tendencies who use a very literal definition (hence deny its validity). But the P-word has morphed into a generic label over the decades - it now just means "name for anything I don't like" when spoken by a feminist. And it is accompanied by other simplistic bogeyman-personifications that exist in partner movements: all problems result from [racism/colonialism/patriarchy/heteronormativity] strike out whichever applies.
The longer the phenomenon Shannon describes goes on (equal/superior attainments by women w/o commensurate substantive outcomes re money/power) the more attractive the conclusion that there are essentialist differences between men and women - isn't that an inevitable position if you are denying TWAW?
The motte on the hill in Clown World you've chosen to die on tilting at a windmill you've mistaken for Jordan. Weird how you manage that with a a figment living rent-free in your head, but still. I don't know how many times I've listened or read Dr Peterson walking us through this patriarchy thing or from how many directions he has done it from; but it is a lot in seven years. It is out there for the listening. You either haven't actually been listening; instead having a whole other conversation in your head (I get that a lot; and probably more from men 2 to 1) a la Cathy Newman; (But she is payed to not get it; I'm at a loss of what being deliberately obtuse unpaid is about) or you simply aren't up to understanding him atm and will never get it unless you turn around whatever is getting in the road. From what you've written, there might be a pattern there.
Been there; done that; got draws full of t-shirts. I too thought every one else was wrong once; but it turned out to be me that was orthagonal to the world all along. It took forty years and winding up before magistrates to begin to sort me out; to the degree I am that is! You've obviously achieved a lot; but you can achieve more. I think you are being your own glass ceiling. Believe me, it is a waste. You don't even get to the path less trodden before your time is up as you've been the Red Queen running still in one place all along.
Ironically something that might help you work out what is going on for yourself is Dr Peterson, et.al; 'The Self-Authoring Suite'; established as efficacious well before his notoriety. This is probably not the reaction you might have been looking for, but I don't believe in affirming folk digging holes for themselves. TTFN.