Thanks for putting the focus back where it belongs. The kinds of things that you talk about are things that men under the age of 50 or so generally agree with you about. We might disagree on how to fix them -- government action vs voluntary social change -- but we don’t disagree about their existence like we might about the other definition of patriarchy. I suspect that there’s a generational divide where men started having feminist moms, but I could be extrapolating too much from my own life.
I live in a matriarchy. Where I live, only men are forced to fight in wars (I know, it's weird, but here, women don't have to even register for a draft). If a man refuses to go to war, the government will come and hold him at gunpoint and force him. It's barbaric. Where I live, women also hold most of the positions of power in media, academics (at all levels), medical care, psychological care, and local governance (particularly school boards). It's also socially acceptable here to discriminate against men, while it's illegal to discriminate against women. My life is filled with stories of men being discriminated against - I could fill Dr. Peterson's mailbox with them. The little boys here don't do as well in school as little girls because the people who control the schools are women. Men don't go to college as much as women. Men have lower incomes per hour, unless they take jobs that are dangerous - which they do (men die at a much higher rate in jobs than women here). Men also are killing themselves much more than women, which you can of course understand, being in a matriarchy. Men are discriminated against in court, whether it's criminal court or family court -- they are stuck in the matriarchy where women are locked up less and awarded money/children more. I live in the United States. I'm a woman with two daughters, so I used to think this was awesome. But now that I have two grandsons, it's not as nice to live in a matriarchy. I feel bad for being selfish in the past.
I've noticed a lot of the men who wade into feminism/gender issues have some Asbergerish tendencies who use a very literal definition (hence deny its validity). But the P-word has morphed into a generic label over the decades - it now just means "name for anything I don't like" when spoken by a feminist. And it is accompanied by other simplistic bogeyman-personifications that exist in partner movements: all problems result from [racism/colonialism/patriarchy/heteronormativity] strike out whichever applies.
The longer the phenomenon Shannon describes goes on (equal/superior attainments by women w/o commensurate substantive outcomes re money/power) the more attractive the conclusion that there are essentialist differences between men and women - isn't that an inevitable position if you are denying TWAW?
The problem with your post, of course, is that Dr. Peterson is thinking at a completely different level than what you're talking about. The story of our history as human beings is one of negotiation between the sexes. We used to live in a much more violent and virulent society. We women were weaker, bled for several days a month (with pain), suffered greater from illnesses (and more of them), AND went through childbirth frequently (since there was no such thing as birth control), which made us even more weak and required us to breastfeed for months with a defenseless, needy baby at our chests. We NEEDED protection, or we would die. We negotiated with men to provide it. It wasn't about "power." It was about survival. Then this thing called evolution happened, which put us through ALL KINDS of versions of that protection (some better than others) -- and that has brought us to the present day, where you can argue (as I did in another comment) that we're as much of a matriarchy as a patriarchy. We are STILL NEGOTIATING and helping each other survive. In my household, the supposed "power" goes back and forth. Society is that way too, but on a larger scale and for larger spans of time. THAT'S LIFE. And that's what Dr. Peterson is talking about. Not about your mommy's one bad day at the bank, but about all human beings for all time -- and how the sexes must stop pointing fingers and blaming each other for our predicament. We need to instead learn from the negotiations of the past (good and bad), and start negotiating about what we want to achieve in the future.
Thank you ( again!). I am a school nurse ( a nurse by choice- not because the patriarchy forced me into it :-) ). I get a front row seat to how boys lose out in the current school environment every day. Luckily, people are beginning to see it and talk about how to fix it.
Thanks for putting the focus back where it belongs. The kinds of things that you talk about are things that men under the age of 50 or so generally agree with you about. We might disagree on how to fix them -- government action vs voluntary social change -- but we don’t disagree about their existence like we might about the other definition of patriarchy. I suspect that there’s a generational divide where men started having feminist moms, but I could be extrapolating too much from my own life.
I live in a matriarchy. Where I live, only men are forced to fight in wars (I know, it's weird, but here, women don't have to even register for a draft). If a man refuses to go to war, the government will come and hold him at gunpoint and force him. It's barbaric. Where I live, women also hold most of the positions of power in media, academics (at all levels), medical care, psychological care, and local governance (particularly school boards). It's also socially acceptable here to discriminate against men, while it's illegal to discriminate against women. My life is filled with stories of men being discriminated against - I could fill Dr. Peterson's mailbox with them. The little boys here don't do as well in school as little girls because the people who control the schools are women. Men don't go to college as much as women. Men have lower incomes per hour, unless they take jobs that are dangerous - which they do (men die at a much higher rate in jobs than women here). Men also are killing themselves much more than women, which you can of course understand, being in a matriarchy. Men are discriminated against in court, whether it's criminal court or family court -- they are stuck in the matriarchy where women are locked up less and awarded money/children more. I live in the United States. I'm a woman with two daughters, so I used to think this was awesome. But now that I have two grandsons, it's not as nice to live in a matriarchy. I feel bad for being selfish in the past.
Pretty much every line of this comment is addressed in the article, most in the next to last paragraph.
But the idea that men killing men is women's fault--well, that's a new one. Points for originality.
It was a mirror, Shannon! And I agree that it was stupid. If you didn't like what I said, maybe you should delete your post.
I could not love this more!!
The irony of the feminine gaze focused on a man, refuting and discussing his ideas about patriarchy.
The Marxist femininsts a prioris are buried so deep, we are so incepted, they are now invisible.
Never heard of this guy, he drops five cryptic comments all at once, then blocks me. Mmk.
I've noticed a lot of the men who wade into feminism/gender issues have some Asbergerish tendencies who use a very literal definition (hence deny its validity). But the P-word has morphed into a generic label over the decades - it now just means "name for anything I don't like" when spoken by a feminist. And it is accompanied by other simplistic bogeyman-personifications that exist in partner movements: all problems result from [racism/colonialism/patriarchy/heteronormativity] strike out whichever applies.
The longer the phenomenon Shannon describes goes on (equal/superior attainments by women w/o commensurate substantive outcomes re money/power) the more attractive the conclusion that there are essentialist differences between men and women - isn't that an inevitable position if you are denying TWAW?
Quite the tirade for someone who thinks that someone else is "dying on a hill."
Agreed. You obviously hit a nerve on him and now he's desperate to refute you.
He must have been "triggered".
I prescribe a "safe space"
The problem with your post, of course, is that Dr. Peterson is thinking at a completely different level than what you're talking about. The story of our history as human beings is one of negotiation between the sexes. We used to live in a much more violent and virulent society. We women were weaker, bled for several days a month (with pain), suffered greater from illnesses (and more of them), AND went through childbirth frequently (since there was no such thing as birth control), which made us even more weak and required us to breastfeed for months with a defenseless, needy baby at our chests. We NEEDED protection, or we would die. We negotiated with men to provide it. It wasn't about "power." It was about survival. Then this thing called evolution happened, which put us through ALL KINDS of versions of that protection (some better than others) -- and that has brought us to the present day, where you can argue (as I did in another comment) that we're as much of a matriarchy as a patriarchy. We are STILL NEGOTIATING and helping each other survive. In my household, the supposed "power" goes back and forth. Society is that way too, but on a larger scale and for larger spans of time. THAT'S LIFE. And that's what Dr. Peterson is talking about. Not about your mommy's one bad day at the bank, but about all human beings for all time -- and how the sexes must stop pointing fingers and blaming each other for our predicament. We need to instead learn from the negotiations of the past (good and bad), and start negotiating about what we want to achieve in the future.
Thank you ( again!). I am a school nurse ( a nurse by choice- not because the patriarchy forced me into it :-) ). I get a front row seat to how boys lose out in the current school environment every day. Luckily, people are beginning to see it and talk about how to fix it.
Is hs tirade "shrill"?
Asking for a frend
Thanks for mansplaining that!